One of my hobbyhorses is how updating hymns to eliminate thee/thou/thy inevitably changes meaning as well as style. A striking example: there's a verse in "O Word of God Incarnate" that in the original reads
In thee all fullness dwelleth, all grace and pow'r divine
The glory that excelleth, O Son of God, is thine.
In the newer Trinity hymnal, it's been changed to
In you all fullness dwelling, all grace and pow'r outpours
The glory all excelling, O Son of God, is yours.
Now, the new version doesn't say anything bad, but...taking the word "divine" out vitiates the adoration in the original. (Not to mention that it also obscures the clear reference to Colossians 1:19 and 2:9.) I sympathize with whoever had the job of rewriting those hymns, though--I certainly couldn't have done any better!
I also didn't know that thy/thine was based on a next consonant/next vowel. I wonder whether my/mine also used to be that way? It seems that nowadays "mine" is only a predicate adjective and otherwise one uses "my". I just always assumed that was the case with thy/thine as well, but could've noticed otherwise by looking at hymns...e.g. in "Jesus, What a Friend for Sinners" with the line "By thine own eternal Spirit, rule in all our hearts alone; by thine all sufficient merit, raise us to thy glorious throne."
I am mostly against updating traditional hymns for the reasons you’ve just outlined, but I do understand the impulse to address God in the language that we speak (i.e., in reverent but contemporary idiom)—an idea that was certainly important in the Reformation!
Your instincts are correct about “my” and “mine.” Rod & Staff mentions that “in archaic usage, ‘my’ is also used before consonant sounds, and ‘mine’ is used before vowel sounds” (also from lesson 69 in the eighth-grade textbook). I think the King James Version follows that usage.
So hard to pick only one hymn! I have always loved Guide me O Thou Great Jehovah, but just recently became acquainted with Come Ye Sinners.
I love that Rod & Staff came in handy - I should have kept one of those books, they are amazing. When he is a little older read G.A. Henty books aloud to him (or he can read them himself) and then he will have exclamations such as, "Je-RU-SA-lem!!"
I think he will love G. A. Henty (and the resulting archaic exclamations he can use)!
I love “Come Ye Sinners,” but Ezra has asked me to sing it so much at nap time and bedtime that I’ve gotten a little tired of it. 🤣
It’s a few years until Ezra will be doing Rod & Staff Building Christian English (I think it starts in second grade), but I already have some volumes from my mom as well as a couple I bought from a professor’s wife here. Great to have them around!
I really enjoyed this one!
One of my hobbyhorses is how updating hymns to eliminate thee/thou/thy inevitably changes meaning as well as style. A striking example: there's a verse in "O Word of God Incarnate" that in the original reads
In thee all fullness dwelleth, all grace and pow'r divine
The glory that excelleth, O Son of God, is thine.
In the newer Trinity hymnal, it's been changed to
In you all fullness dwelling, all grace and pow'r outpours
The glory all excelling, O Son of God, is yours.
Now, the new version doesn't say anything bad, but...taking the word "divine" out vitiates the adoration in the original. (Not to mention that it also obscures the clear reference to Colossians 1:19 and 2:9.) I sympathize with whoever had the job of rewriting those hymns, though--I certainly couldn't have done any better!
I also didn't know that thy/thine was based on a next consonant/next vowel. I wonder whether my/mine also used to be that way? It seems that nowadays "mine" is only a predicate adjective and otherwise one uses "my". I just always assumed that was the case with thy/thine as well, but could've noticed otherwise by looking at hymns...e.g. in "Jesus, What a Friend for Sinners" with the line "By thine own eternal Spirit, rule in all our hearts alone; by thine all sufficient merit, raise us to thy glorious throne."
Thanks for a great issue!
I am mostly against updating traditional hymns for the reasons you’ve just outlined, but I do understand the impulse to address God in the language that we speak (i.e., in reverent but contemporary idiom)—an idea that was certainly important in the Reformation!
Your instincts are correct about “my” and “mine.” Rod & Staff mentions that “in archaic usage, ‘my’ is also used before consonant sounds, and ‘mine’ is used before vowel sounds” (also from lesson 69 in the eighth-grade textbook). I think the King James Version follows that usage.
Thanks for reading!
This was a fun post! I love the old hymns, but never quite understood how the archaic pronouns worked. Thank you for filling me in!
So hard to pick only one hymn! I have always loved Guide me O Thou Great Jehovah, but just recently became acquainted with Come Ye Sinners.
I love that Rod & Staff came in handy - I should have kept one of those books, they are amazing. When he is a little older read G.A. Henty books aloud to him (or he can read them himself) and then he will have exclamations such as, "Je-RU-SA-lem!!"
I think he will love G. A. Henty (and the resulting archaic exclamations he can use)!
I love “Come Ye Sinners,” but Ezra has asked me to sing it so much at nap time and bedtime that I’ve gotten a little tired of it. 🤣
It’s a few years until Ezra will be doing Rod & Staff Building Christian English (I think it starts in second grade), but I already have some volumes from my mom as well as a couple I bought from a professor’s wife here. Great to have them around!